I've seen some of you on other admin sites i frequent so you may wind up seeing this post elsewhere Just curious on your ideas/thoughts & how you'd handle these situations. Background info: 17 years old Admin experience(6 months) Software experience: Forumotion, Mybb, SMF 2.0.2, Xenforo and IPB Current sites: 2(one with 233 members and 27,000 posts & the other is new) demographic: Mainly age 11-19(generally 12-17) First and foremost, I want to say that I do care and love all my members. I've been with these kids for 6 months and they are like a second family to me..and given the drama we've had. Our competitor shut our first site down and attacks on our current site(DDos) has made it apparent while part of me doesn't want to keep doing the admin thing, I do it for them. Not for me. 1. Moderator/Admin team I am the owner of my main site. I am usually the oldest member regularly on and active though there are some people who are older than me. My "Moderator & Admin" team(Notice the quote) consist of 13-16 year olds. I use the quotes because for all intents and purposes, they may as well be regular members with some special powers. For the most part they don't abuse their power but they also pretty much don't do anything else with them either. There are threads that need to be locked, merged, split, moved, etc etc. and yet they don't get done. I have to essentially make sure i am EVERY on the site at all times. We have RPGs(Roleplaying games) and there are set rules for the Rp but the Mod/Admins don't make sure the members follow them. Not to mention whenever drama happens(more on this later), instead of warning and then kicking and banning...they just sit there and watch. Or they just leave the chatbox. And don't let me criticize them or ask them to do anything because it is a problem and they act like you just spit on them. If you even say you are going to demote then, they'll threaten to quit. Then you have the members who beg daily to be mods/admins yet they do nothing to deserve said title and get mad at you when you explain to them. 2. Drama, Drama, Drama...Did i mention Drama? Happens daily.....Oh yeah & Drama Almost everyday there is some type of drama. It used to originally be my site vs our competitors which was fine...in a way it built team spirit lol but now it is member vs members There is an ignore feature in chat but people refuse to use it.....and then they are mad when someone hurts their feelings. Why not just use the button and ignore them? Hello...how hard is that? Then you have members who intentionally attack members just for entertainment value or those who seeks attention they resort to making up stories or exaggerations for sympathy. Then I am accused of letting drama go on...even if i am not physically there because i will not ban someone just based on what people tell me. I need some type of proof. 3. Bandwagoning This basically happens quite a bit. I'm gay and I had a member use a homophobic slur against me and I did react badly and result in a MAJOR argument that nearly killed the site. I originally just banned him for 2 days but the other members made me feel bad(even though he was wrong) and winded up unbanning him the same day. Then he came on chat acting as if it wasn't a big deal. It became me vs that member and his "group". Originally people were on my side and didn't care for him at all. Then out of nowhere, the very same people who claimed to understand why I had banned him from chat and why i disliked him just out of nowhere turned on me and were like it's not a big deal. It's just a word. THis went on for another few weeks until they came up with this idea of quitting my site and then trying to create their own website. Nearly 50% of my site quit all in the same day and the site almost died....a couple of days later they came back and apologies were made and i've since forgiven the guy and all but bandwagoning is something that pisses me off. Whatever the event is....they have a tendency to just jump behind whatever is popular and then switch sides. Even if sad drama had nothing to do with them. 4. Chatbox & Forum posting I wish there was a way to have chat messages be counted in the overall post count, I'd have about 10 million posts. My chatbox is very active(especially for drama) yet my forum activity is slacking. I don't mind the chatbox. It is easy to talk to people but when i try to encourage them to post at least 5 times a day, it's a big deal. I explained to them that if we don't post...we don't get new members. There are members who have been with me since forumotion all the way to the latest site(that is 6 websites) who almost never post. But they log in chat daily, spend hours there and do not post. What annoys me is when they come on the site to discuss posting on ANOTHER UNAFFILIATED website. I do have members who never come in chat and just post in the forums which i love but the ones in chat are my most active/daily members. I may as well just shut the forum down and just keep the chatbox up. So what would you do in this situation? It now marks 6 months that i've been with these people and as much as I care for them, I don't know what ONE 17 year old can do. It has gotten to the point where I don't even want new members simply for the fact i dont want my site to have a bad reputation.
Sounds like your site has taken the wrong turn somewhere down the line. You're totally focused on this issue, it makes it sound like nothing else is going on at the site other than the fight between a few of you. Look at how many members you have who are active daily - if it's only trouble makers then do you really want to be making a community for the trouble makers? If you find that by banning them you'd remove a large portion of the active members I'd consider selling the site. That way you can still go on and chat but it won't be your responsibility and you could leave for a couple of months to let the argument die down. If they're a small minority I'd ban the lot of them and those who stir the most trouble I'd ban permanently. Allow yourself to be selfish, don't think if I sell it this might happen, instead think if I sell it then it'll stay open for everyone! You shouldn't have to put up with shit so make sure you do something about it if you're going to keep hold of it.
Selling is not an option but I am thinking of giving it up to another member and just washing my hands of it altogether. It's just really disheartening as this is probably the biggest non-school or sports related thing i've ever done and taken seriously in 17 years
Use the experience you've had making it the success it was as a positive. Perhaps you can do it again but around a different niche? Look at the makers of Angry Birds. They nearly went bankrupt many times, it was their 50 somethingth attempt before they made a successful product. You've only had one attempt yet!
Don't give up, but do make some major changes. 1. monitor your team. The people who don't perform are out. It's your forum, don't see why you need another admin. So, first move is to demote everyone who's not giving it all. Don't make a show out of it and try to be nice about it. Set them off the moderator group, send EACH of them a private message thanking them for the support. Let them know you are trying to run the community on your own for a while, so that you can set it all up again. If you'll need them in the future, you'll consider them again. It doesn't have to happen anyway, but don't make them feel to bad about it. it's a reorganization of the forums and now you need to be the sole leader. 2. set up some serious rules. People are not allowed to be rude etc. You don't really need to advertise your sexual options. Let's say I've run forums for 10 years and never had to discuss my sexual choices. I am a heterosexual, but it's irrelevant. People are idiots, so by being too open about your homosexuality will surely get some of them run you over. You don't need this crap. 3. starting 'teams' against other forums is wrong and now it's biting you. You don't need this attitude, since it backfires. Even if all of us here are actually competitors, you don't see me 'plot' against the admin here or any other admin forum owner. We RESPECT each other and actually work together in many areas. You don't have to destroy your competition, you have to provide a good product/service (which is the community) and that's it. Members are not sheep to be herded and many of them are active in many other forums too. Stop the 'cliques'. It was your mistake to do it in the first place, now you need to 'undo' it. Don't allow talk about other forums, unless it's a promotional thread. NO BADMOUTHING. No badmouthing between members too. set it in the rules that you don't allow for flame wars and that, if they do this, they're out. 4. prepare to ban some members. who's not with you, is against you. BAN whoever chooses to disobey the rules. They are in your 'house' they need to respect your rules. otherwise they're out. Ban privately, ban for good. Warn before and then ban. don't do it publicly,don't humiliate anyone. Just clean your forums. Here is a similar story, hope it's OK to link to it. I've written there a short novel on this matter So the idea is to start cleaning the mess. Delete the chatbox. If people complain, let them know that it helps your community grow faster, since you'd discuss in the forums. Make them proud to be a part of the community and know that they actions count and can make a difference. You can link us to the forums too, to take a look. Let me know if you need more ideas, we're here to hepl and most of us have gone though this mess at least once in our careers
THank you all so much. This has really given me a lot of food for thought. I know there are other admins out there either going through or have went through situations like this which is why i enjoy sites like this. The sad thing is, the promoting part and the content part really isn't the hard part for me as it is for some. I do have SOME members who are posting and for now and I do the promotion on my own via social networking. It's me and my current members that are the issue. The sadder things is the very ideas I built my site on are biting me in the ass. My site was always meant to be a free and open site where people could have the opportunity to just be themselves and relax. My competitor would rather look out and take care of their OLD and VETERAN members and leave the newbies out to fend for themselves. I didn't like the ideal and i wanted to be equal for all and I applied that ideal to my site to make it more democratic and relax...and unfortunately good intentions don't always have the best outcome. I've been working with guest speakers for future events(Actors, Writers & directors) to come talk to them and I'm like...what if they act stupid and start cursing and attacking each other when the guest is online. I think what i really need to do is what was said above and be a little selfish because the more I try to make them all happy, I wind up miserable and tbh, I literally hate my site(not the people...just the site) to the point that half the time when the site has issues with the host, I half the time don't even WANT them to get fixed. We were DDOs by our competitor last week an i wasn't even mad. But thanks for the words and I am reading the thread you listed above, Dojo thanks!
- Get new moderators. You need moderators that do their jobs. Although honestly you may create an outcry in the community if you start to suddenly get rid of all moderators. This might make them create their own forum (that mimics yours). How many moderators do you have in the first place? "If you even say you are going to demote then, they'll threaten to quit." - Let them.. YOU'RE suppose to be the one with the power, not them. Next time they try this bullshit call them on their buff. If they quit, get a new moderator that knows how to do their job. Regarding the drama portion, it might be a good idea to censor particular words (racial slurs for example might be a good start - that's when it gets personal). "bandwagoning is something that pisses me off." - I've had this happen too. Nothing major but I've had a member who didn't agree with our rules ( you're free to view a thread that's been closed on my forum here http://www.mapletalk.net/thread-6970.html ). I find the members "thanking" the user "bandwagoning". It's just people that wants to "stick it to the man" so to speak. The last part regarding the chatbox is one of the reasons why I never got one on my forum. Your forum is already a medium of communication - putting up a chatbox (IMO) killed it.
I am glad we can be of help. The member you read from in my linked thread has decided to re-open her forum. It's been open for 1 week, she's listened closely to our guidelines and she's doing pretty well now. Less stress, more fun. You don't need to be selfish. We are not selfish either, we just learnt to LEAD. I'm usually a very easy going person and it really bit me. People I trusted tried to hurt my site, threatened to beat me up etc. And these are the members who helped build my first community 10 years ago, whom I trusted and respected A LOT. You need to be assertive, while also being polite and professional. As I told my member, NEVER go down to your bad members level, even if they deserve to be beaten senselessly for what they are doing,. Always be polite and never curse or show a weakness. it's no easy, since you are at that age when it's not easy to inhibit your 'drive' and your members are hard to handle as well. Consider this as a way to start being A MAN, because you'll surely need to start acting like one. Try to stop the 'flames' that are now, modify the guidelines and ADD CONTENT at the same time. It's a good way to distract your members. Have new interesting threads, stuff that will keep them busy, while you're cleaning out. Set it in the rules that you don't accept foul language and attacks. if they feel a post is directed at them, they should REPORT it. By answering it, they are as guilty as the 'offender' and it won't help the community either. WARN both of them and politely mention in the PM that you would like them to report anything that's wrong, since it's easier for you to handle than wade through tens of offensive posts. Do this few times and they'll get the point. I had to do this for few weeks on my forums and it all turned out OK. in the end my members got the point. I also banned the troublemakers who wouldn't stop from their destructive ways. Nothing lost, there's many new members to join each day so they were soon replaced with others.
Dojo that link that you linked me to on that othe rsite, I read that and i was like...Oh my god....this is eerie. It sound so similar to me. If you took out the medical complications and the nature of his/her forum, it would have been almost word for word my experience i have now. It's almost like i am two people. I am a leader and a good one in my regular daily life at school and command respect but for some reason it is much harder for me to be the same way on my site. Of course in real life, while I am a leader I also have a strong team to back me up vs no one on my site. I went to bed after posting and went to school and did a lot of thinking and i realize my expectations are quite high and I guess it is because on forumotion when we had just the basics, it was less drama and more fun for me and the community was 4 times active(500-600 posts daily) to our Simple machines forum that at best gets 1/6 that dailty ad more drama. I realize I need to stop holding on to the past...that forumotion site is dead and we've evolved and I need to stop holding on to that and stop holding THEM to past expectations and try to encourage them better. Like said, I don't have the problem of getting new members or keeping them coming back....I have a problem of getting them out of the chatbox So in a lot of ways I guess I am lucky that i have a loyal following. They aren't all bad. They have followed me now to 6 different sites/hosts w/o much complaining so i am grateful for that. But my niche is built around a book that we are all fan of but that niche can eventually get old. Even I would get tired of talking about it, so I am working on actually making the niche more of a variety of things that would interest them better. Still keep the original aspect of the books to discuss characters, plots and speculations but have things that appeal to them. After venting last night and the kind words here and elsewhere, I feel like I really do have more drive in me and I think i can do it. I just need to let go of the past and gain control and have a plan for the future
Absolutely. The moment you understand where your problems are, you can start mending the project. and you are mature enough to understand what your mistakes are. This is just great, you can know start re-building. Just kill the chatbox and start adding new nice topics each day. Start promoting the site (I dno't see a signature likn here), get some post exchanges going on etc. It's not impossible to make it work, but it does take a lot of work
I disagree, you should be running the forum to get something out of it. This could be the enjoyment of running it for others. If there are no positives then ask the question, why are you doing it?
Thank you guys so much. It really is encouraging to hear this stuff from experienced Webmasters and such. I am typing fast(Prom is tonight lol) as I wanted to check out the forums i frequent so please forgive any typos. While the negatives do outweigh the positives, the fact that i still actually like and care about each of them(even the idiot trolls) is probably the only reason I'm doing it. Actually that is the only reason I am doing it lol. Update Since I wrote this post: I've decided to start viewing my site the same way as I do high school because to be honest, this site is full of teenager and the same dumb stuff people in school discuss...."Annoying" parents, bf/gf drama, attention seekers, those who try to be popular, friends fightign day in and day out and it has helped me with a little patience. I've been working on some rules. Nothing strict because I hate rules myself but I know that a site needs them(and a disciplinary action should they be broken) that i'll be announcing later today. They ARE posting on the site more than they were before. Today, a guy who notoriously only logs into chat on the chatbox like it is skype or facebook actually did 30-40 posts and I made sure to post along with him to keep him engaged and that did make me happy and he legit seemed to enjoy doing it as well as other members are posting. Like I told some members, if you ask others to post with you then they probably will do so. Especially in the games section The same member i mention above, actually suggested getting rid of a chatbox or getting a smaller one becaue he said he posted more when he ignored the chatbox. So I am guessing if the chatbox wasn't there, it be easier for them to post. However, I am not naieve or stupid enough to remove it. If these were adults maybe but they would only go to sites or instant messaging services to chat with each other and I'd kill my site very quickly. For now, I need to appreciate the fact that while they are NOT posting as much as i like, they are at least visiting daily. The chatbox really isn't the problem. Again most of the kids on my site have been with me since day 1, 6 months ago when we first started and we've always had a chatbox. They posted TONS more in the beginning than they do now and i'm just copping up to laziness. The most interesting thing is the kid who called me a word that rhymes with Wag it is now apart of my staff. I know some people may frown upon it but there is a method to my madness. It's more of a keep a friend close, enemies closer type of thing and it also makes me look more accepting. He is doing a decent job though. He actually made a comment that he sees the stuff I deal with daily as he has had to kick and ban a few members of the site numerous times as they love to insult him and what not. I intentionally don't intervene because if they always count on me to intervene then there is no staff and plus it is kind of teaching him and the rest of the admins/mods a lesson about what i have to deal with them. While they are more respectful and appreciative of me, the drama has gotten worse and worse and the bandwagoning has reached a naseuatingly sickening level. Today this boy switched sides from his "friend's" side to his friend's enemies side and then back...all in the same argument. and then i have an idiot boy who is 13 who feels the need to post pictures of people with their heads cut off or bashed in or other gross stuff. He was originally only doing it in Chat but he then started doing it in the forums which pissed me off. SO this is an update We are actually buying a license for premium software for the site this weekend(hopefully) so once that is purchased, I hope to get your visual feedback on the site as well my sad, sad rants
I like that you know a lot of science words like "Bandwagoning"! And I think you're a very clever young man. But how it's possible to comment with "generally 12-17" years old people the topic "gay"???????????? Come on, man! They're not adults and you have to take care about it - NO SEXUAL/ADULT TOPICS. "Gay" may have some social, psychological, etc. points, but it's mainly a sexual topic and it has no room in a forum with kids and teens. I don't know where are you from, but check out the laws in your country and probably you can find that it's not legal to discuss "gay" matters with 12-17 years old. Pragmatically if you forbid them to mention any adult topics, you're not going to have this kind of trouble. So, I recommend you to change the rules. It's for the good of all you people there.
I'm from america I don't think it it is against the law(here anyway) to discuss being gay or anything like that. There are many forums geared towards LGBT teens to discuss that. It's not really a sexual/adult topic so much as a controversial one that can open the doors to bigots to attack others. But i do agree with the rules of the site to tone down some of the other stuff. tbh i'd be more worried about the arguments and drama being laebeled as cyber bullying than the gay thing as they can get vicious in arguments.
Well, as I know in the US every state has some different laws. What I meant was that probably to discuss the SEXUAL orientation with/between NON-adults (12-17 years old) isn't right. If I am right about it, it may be the perfect solution - you'll post new rules in your forum and you'll tell them: Folks, according to our law...from now on, no sexual topics... Nice to talk with you, but now I have to go. Best wishes, dear Forever Young!
Most of the world allows the freedom to discuss sexual related topics with minors. As long as they are not discuss having sex with them
